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TOPIC: Werden "Markierer" eigentlich auch mal überprüft?

Re:Werden "Markierer" eigentlich auch mal überprüft? 23 Mar 2011 18:43 #42166

Ah, my "favourite" topic...

But this time there seems to be some decent discussion going on, so I'll try to bring up a few points that have been bothering for a while:

- In my opinion, it's not spawn*killing* that should be forbidden, but spawn*camping*. There's a huge difference between a single spawn kill, maybe even an accidental one, and a FdOps that keeps camping outside the spawn and doing *nothing else* but going for cheap kills.
That's frustrating, doesn't lead to good gameplay, requires no skill and is, in my opinion, just lame.

Pushing back the enemy as far as possible for tactical reasons though is a legitimate strategy I think.

- Red Zones: A technical "solution" for a social problem. If spawnkilling shouldn't be allowed in certain parts of the map, then *make* it impossible (easy to do using invisble map objects that block bullets or even players of the opposite team from entering).
Also, they are pretty unbalanced: Hotchkiss, which even has a terrible arty bug that's abused every time by axis players, has none at all, whereas Oasis has a huge one, basically eliminating the option for an eng to quickly sprint through Axis' spawn and up the stairs.

- Not being allowed to defend yourself if you're getting shot at from someone camping in his own spawn: WTF?

That being said, rules are rules, and as long as those are in effect, I obey them. But I'd like to see them improved.
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Re:Werden "Markierer" eigentlich auch mal überprüft? 24 Mar 2011 00:42 #42168

How funny, thats my fav topic too! :)

It would be best if we had to forbid nothing at all. But ppl dont play fair by themselves...

I can understand why you`re frustrated, but try to think about it in another way: It's not about tactics, it's not a pro-server. It's a fun server. Getting stabbed 8 times while you urgently have to go to the toilet is not fun at all. Getting shot in your own spawn upon respawning sucks balls. And believe me, it happens because only a few ppl care about fair teams. Most of the players here would love to shoot riflenades and Arty in the enemy spawn for 20 minutes in a row!
So there is a safe place where you at least are able to lit a cigarrette or have a gulp of your coffee...

Spawncamping is lame, but I don't think you can avoid it. There's no means to define it in a simple way. Imagine it forbidden, the FOps would start to run out of the area every 20 seconds and back in, claiming he wasnt camping!

You can't add objects to the maps, because it is disrespectful to the maker of a map and simply impossible due to password protected pk3 files!

And in the end I'd like you to know that the whereabouts of red areas are much more thought-about than you might assume. I know that because I made most of 'em :)

We're always open for a discussion - since the rules aren't there for our fun but for yours, but I don't believe there will be anything new to this discussion...
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Re:Werden "Markierer" eigentlich auch mal überprüft? 24 Mar 2011 08:07 #42172

You made the red zones on some of the maps ?!?! You just became 1 more person that id like to meet personally.
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We all make choices but in the end our choices make us
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Re:Werden 24 Mar 2011 12:53 #42174

slayer515 wrote:
You made the red zones on some of the maps ?!?! You just became 1 more person that id like to meet personally.

Note to self: Bring the baseball bat to the next KW meeting! :)
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Re:Werden 24 Mar 2011 16:27 #42177

Bring a tank but it won't help you.
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Re:Werden 26 Mar 2011 09:13 #42204

dessi wrote:
How funny, thats my fav topic too! :)

It would be best if we had to forbid nothing at all. But ppl dont play fair by themselves...

Yeah, that's true. However, I was an admin of a 40slot Jaymod server (FunServer) for about a year, where spawnkilling was allowed. We had all sorts of problems, but spawnkilling / -camping wasn't one of them. It did happen, of course - but the perception was more like "Spawnkilling is the fair punishment for a team that doesn't want to attack". If you let the enemy get that close, it's your own fault, so you'll have to fight your way out of it again.

But, what might have worked on our server might not work here, no doubt about that.
I can understand why you`re frustrated, but try to think about it in another way: It's not about tactics, it's not a pro-server. It's a fun server.

Yeah. But I don't think tactics and fun-server are mutually exclusive. But I see your point.
Getting stabbed 8 times while you urgently have to go to the toilet is not fun at all.

Actually, I don't really care about that. I'm not after stats, so while I'm on the toilet you can ass-rape my player, I don't care :D Going spec would be another solution to that particular issue.
Getting shot in your own spawn upon respawning sucks balls.

Yeah, that's the part I hate. spawn-splash-respawn-splash...
Spawncamping is lame, but I don't think you can avoid it. There's no means to define it in a simple way.

That's the main problem with my idea I think. At least I don't see a feasible way to define it either. But this could be one of those cases where it makes sense to apply the "Admin is always right" rule: Whatever an admin thinks is spawncamping will be treated as such.
Imagine it forbidden, the FOps would start to run out of the area every 20 seconds and back in, claiming he wasnt camping!

Most likely, yeah :(
You can't add objects to the maps, because it is disrespectful to the maker of a map

Hmm. I come from an open-source background, so I don't really see a problem with that. Besides, you wouldn't actually have to modify the original pk3, but you could add a small pk3 as a layer on top of it, like it's usually done for bugfixes.
and simply impossible due to password protected pk3 files!

Same as above, you wouldn't have to modify the map's pk3. You actually shouldn't, because then the md5sum of it would change, and people that already have the map because they downloaded it for a different server would have to re-download it again.

I've done that for several map of ours (fixing bugs in tramfight, hotchkiss, bridges,), so if you'd like I could give you a few examples.
And in the end I'd like you to know that the whereabouts of red areas are much more thought-about than you might assume. I know that because I made most of 'em :)

Ok, that's good to know :P
We're always open for a discussion -

Cool...
but I don't believe there will be anything new to this discussion...

Well, let's see...
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