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TOPIC: The question of Bots

The question of Bots 18 Jul 2018 21:00 #52837

Recently on a Monday, an annoying player keeps trying to call votes for no bots.
He just won't shut up about it.

SO let us discuss it here.

My view is the addition of bots did help a lot for a time.
But now we reach a time where they are becoming unhelpful.

NoQuarter is about chaos. But bots do not replace the player experience. In fact the result now is that large numbers put more people off than they attract. Most quality players refuse to play with bots. Those that do put up with them mostly do it because of an already existing love for Kernwaffe. And perhaps we have fallen into a habit on veterans nights of having the bots there, perhaps this is why some people always vote to keep them.

But Kernwaffe was never ever about bots, the hundreds of thousands XP was gained from playing with people. It cheapens that achievement to keep bots. So if we must have bots I suggest 3 or 4 per side so that people may always get a game. Not more than 5 maximum.
If you want to allow players to harvest XP at other times, there could be 6-8 per side in the week. But I would suggest if you want to play in a bot swarm or harvest xp, go to GOC for that. As I see it, if we want people, then naturally we do not want bots.
Other opinions are welcome to be aired.



As many people do not use forums for various reasons, I'll post Slonik's view here - which is that with e.g. 16 bots, he sees a half dozen ppl in the server as just more bots and doesn't join.

I agree. And I wouldn't be here if I didn't already love the fun and stupidity and free speech insults of what Kernwaffe used to stand for.
Incidentally, you do not need to change that. A mistake was made allowing the leader of AoS to recruit on your server, but the atmosphere was what attracted people, and the bitterness & upset is what drove them away (presumably).
Another thing going forwards is to not have any bitterness for that. It happened, it's life. I don't think you do anymore, but these are just my 2cents. And it is relevent to say it aloud.

Fond wishes & wishing to fondle u all.
& shoot u soon if u don't shoot me first.

ok, you'll shoot me first.
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Last Edit: 19 Jul 2018 21:18 by 7 League Boots. Reason: spelling & stuff
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The question of Bots 19 Jul 2018 21:16 #52838

tldr; I CANNOT DO THIS THING IT IS IMPOSSIBILITY.


I think many players now do not stay because of bots. They are not fun to be around.
Kernwaffe was never about bots. Maybe we keep them by habit.
I think now it's time to reduce bot numbers drastically at least on a monday, for our enjoyment.

Slonik's view: In an 8v8 bot match with 6 players, he just sees them as more bots & doesn't join.


wow. I just hit my self in the face with concision and precison.
[p.s. please move this post to proper section)
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The question of Bots 08 Aug 2018 23:31 #52843

simple answer: bots remain. whining doesnt help ..
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The question of Bots 11 Aug 2018 22:18 #52844

oh come on santa, you just sound condescending here. But maybe there is something wrong with my phrasing?
Recently I mentioned bots/called vote a few mondays in a row, but they were small attempts, and I don't 'whine' about it as you should know since we're often both there. I phrased it like that due to (attempted) humour, i.e. insulting myself.


simple fact: some people leave due to bots. Or never join. e.g. Slonik, and et said so in the chat. some presumably leave without saying anything. I don't always say so. But if anyone has felt I whine, well that is not an attractive attribute. Yet many people simply vote with their feet. What would you prefer?

I put forth a logical & reasoned argument in a thoughtful & considered way, and have waited patiently for people to read & hopefully comment. As the server is for having fun, I'm trying to open the question here on the forum, which is for discussions. So your simple answer is unhelpful in this sense.
also IF this is a dictatorship, I don't think you hold that dubiously exhalted position.


If my phrasing or approach is at fault, maybe you could consider opening the topic in a better or neutral way in the correct part of the forum, to get people's opinions? Or I could try again, but I'm not able to translate into German.

It seems entirely reasonable to have such a discussion,
and where else but here ...

so two questions I think are important:
1) do most kw regulars want to keep a lot of bots, or want them reduced, or off.
2) do people that play ET generally like many bots or not. i.e. do many bots draw in more players than they put off or vice versa.

It's necessary to talk about 1) at least because it's unreasonable if 2 people fail a vote which 4 people f1. On server I don't think I complain much after a vote has failed. But the forum is the place to talk, that's why I brought it here ...
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The question of Bots 26 Aug 2018 10:33 #52847

Hi 7,
sorry i didnt wanted to insult or anything...

Unfortunately most times during the week, bots are neccessary to start the server (no player stays on an empty server waiting until another dude connects. There bots can entertain until another dude connects)

One can ask, what is the right number of bots. Well, with now <7 bots the PF is not available and the nadelauncher gets limited. Still one can get these weapons via command line if you konw how .... thats not what really qualifies as fair ...

And do not underestimate, many new players only stay when they have the PF, not many newbiees like to get pawned 145-to-0 against a veteran rambo-medic. And that many veteran-rambo-medics complain about noob-weapons brings me to the next point:

Concerning the people complaining as metha or slonik, they always complain about everything, making a bad karma. Unfortunately it is a falacy to think they get happy without bots.

I would support the suggestion to somehow include the bots via voting. However, i have no clue how to implement something like this, so its a matter for Luke.

PS: About the house of rock? or what was the name of the server, i have to admit that i again have forotten that yesterday was last saturday of the month :sick: :dry: :huh: :unsure: :angry: :S . I woulkd really like to support such a server-freindship, however, i am too unorganied for a 1-in-a-month event. We probably need someone to remind me for the event. 7, could you act as the official master of ceremony and announce/remind the date in the forum? I would appreciate it....
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The question of Bots 26 Aug 2018 15:14 #52848

No worries santa -
I didn't understand the whole picture. I don't think you're rude, it's just the first response was unhelpful for discussion. I appreciate you've taken the time to write your opinion more in-depth. - Thank you. - They are to a degree necessary you are correct, I cannot fault your logic.

I don't know those you mention well enough, but have met some who complain about everything - I agree it's bad karma and annoying. It also must be annoying if some players come in 2 times a year and only complain. But I have supported KW almost every monday since Nov/Dec last year, when I saw it was back. I am not a 'fair-weather friend' (not someone who is here only for the good times).


The atmosphere is a lot nicer with fewer or no bots. It feels more 'cosy' and friendly, it's difficult to describe. A lot of bots makes me sick and isn't fun. Reducing from 8 to 6 has made a positive difference for me, but as you point out there are problems with <7.
Perhaps we could temporarily change the heavy weapon and/or Rnade restrictions?

I suppose it's a complicated and tricky question re PF, Rnade, & vet rambo-medics (I am a true medic; I don't much care for those who run past and don't revive. UJE server disables medic self-heal - which I'm not suggesting - yet it is a very popular server).
Well, we can either talk about possibilities of change, or do nothing - so I'm glad we are choosing the first option.


RE voting
I sometimes play in an Aussie etpub server with 6 bots per team - they often /callvote bots 0 when e.g. 3 players per team, when the vote passes it disables them automatically. It'd be nice if we had something similar, and got into a habit of voting them off. Like I say: I think we are in the habit of having them around, and I would like to change that.
BUT if after discussion here, the consensus is to change nothing, I will accept the decision.


[this topic should be in the server changes section. I didn't realise when 1st posted, that the applause/critique is for individual players. my mistake may have influenced your initial reply] - - - [Apologies for the length of my writing ... it's a problem I am aware of]

P.S.
About that, well I thought Des/you/the admin team wanted to do things officially first. so I have no idea what is happening. I am happy to help in any way I can, if you and the rest of the admin team would like me to announce/remind on the forum then yes I can do that. But I thought your admins wanted to talk to their admins first.
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